Chatroom 4
Latest message: 2 weeks, 2 days ago
alejandro : Blessings! Have a great week 🙂2025-04-07 00:30:37
: Good night and God bless! Just close the chat room when you are done!2025-04-07 00:30:20
parkerladwig : Funny. Peace be with both you. Oremus pro invicem. Until our Zoom/chats next week. !Hasta pronto!2025-04-07 00:30:11 : printed out for binders...2025-04-07 00:29:36 : Note: New Melleray might well NOT change to the new translation - they have a significant investment in the choir liturgy books they have now, which are typed up specially for their liturgies and2025-04-07 00:29:25 alejandro : Haha! Or the 1963 Monastic Diurnal....but don't get me going!2025-04-07 00:29:19 parkerladwig : Yes, one of us could have insisted the we use King James English while praying LOH, ha ha2025-04-07 00:28:37 alejandro : Yes, this was great! Feel free to reach out anytime and share stuff. Martha I'd love to hear about the medievalist conference you attended recently!2025-04-07 00:28:20 : Thank you Lord - we managed to stay largely on topic, learned more about each other, and did not have to duke anything out!2025-04-07 00:27:52 parkerladwig : Ok, thanks for the transcript2025-04-07 00:27:41 : become part of the talks they match with.2025-04-07 00:27:14 parkerladwig : Thank you both for tonight's discussion. Reinvigorated2025-04-07 00:27:04 alejandro : We've been waiting years for the new LOTH translation. I'm excited for it2025-04-07 00:26:57 : When we are done, I will ask Lexa to pull the transcript for me, and clear the chat room. I will send a copy of the transcript to both of you, but it goes no farther. (Unlike chat transcripts which2025-04-07 00:26:56 alejandro : Oh yeah, I follow all that stuff closely haha, Pray Tell Blog check it out if you haven't2025-04-07 00:26:11 parkerladwig : Grail new version came out in 2020. The Abbey Psalms and Canticles, in case you didn't know.2025-04-07 00:25:15 : You can look at ocso.org/resources/liturgy/calendar for the saints the Order memorializes2025-04-07 00:25:06 parkerladwig : Good advice Martha. Glad to hear the 3 of us struggle with similar things. I too would be interested in a list of Cistercian saints used by NM2025-04-07 00:24:08 alejandro : Yup, two week cycle!2025-04-07 00:24:04 alejandro : Yeah, I like the Grail Psalms. That's why I've used Benedictine Daily Prayer. It's based on St. John's Abbey and follows the ROB ordering more closely2025-04-07 00:23:42 : New Melleray goes through the entire set of psalms every two weeks (the secular LoH takes a month) - but of course that only really works if you pray all the hours!2025-04-07 00:23:36 : fixed typos, and then made the older ones available. We can find out when we are there. They just use the Grail psalms, though.2025-04-07 00:22:27 : There were for a while used copies of the older version of the ordo for New Melleray, but I don't recall if it had special stuff in it. It certainly did not have the hymns. They did a new version that2025-04-07 00:21:47 : Yes, Alejandro - it helps to recall that God does not expect us to earn a merit badge for performance. He gives us grace and that's really all we need.2025-04-07 00:20:32 alejandro : Is there a Cistercian ordo or supplement available? (for specific feast days, etc)2025-04-07 00:20:12 : We have about 12 more minutes here - are there any particular things you feel you need to discuss tonight?2025-04-07 00:19:29 alejandro : Oh yes, I struggle with that! I want to do the most and then get frustrated. I've been better at managing that in recent times but it pops up once in a while2025-04-07 00:19:04 : Overcommitting will most likely lead to disappointment with self, to throwing up one's hands completely as a failure... UNDERcommit, and do more if you can on a given day2025-04-07 00:18:05 alejandro : I need to talk less, listen more. The focus on contemplation, simplicity, and manual labor is what attracted me to Citeaux2025-04-07 00:17:52 : Don't make the mistake of trying to pray all 7 hours! As lay folks, we really cannot do that sanely and be faithful to our jobs and family. The full set is designed for monks/nuns and priests, us.2025-04-07 00:17:17 alejandro : Well said Martha....that is what attracted me to Cistercian spirituality!2025-04-07 00:16:35 parkerladwig : Yes, Alejandro and Martha, I'm remember hearing of nun who mainly used the Our Father for LD and never got beyond first 1 or 2 sentences2025-04-07 00:16:30 : Personally, I've needed to come to terms with the fact that too much nerdiness in this regard can be a self-congratulatory distraction from the humility needed to hear what God is telling me2025-04-07 00:15:51 alejandro : I wish, Martha! I have a big event that same weekend that I am one of the organizers for. Trust me, it's a priority for next year!2025-04-07 00:15:23 alejandro : Agreed, Parker! I sometimes try to do "too much" and frankly we're not in a monastery where our lives are setup for this so we need to do it by piece by piece2025-04-07 00:14:43 : It would certainly be fun! I forget, Alejandro - will you be at the gathering after Easter?2025-04-07 00:14:43 alejandro : I started reading "Monastic Practices" by Charles Cummings, OCSO and it helped me understand and practice Lectio better. It also helps to not try and do a whole chapter. Start small2025-04-07 00:13:30 parkerladwig : For me, I'm trying to add LOH first, to get in the spirit of the Church praying. Then, using some of the texts (readings, psalms, prayers, antiphons, canticles,responsories for LD2025-04-07 00:13:26 : Spring --- and Michael Casey has some books with excellent reading suggestions. It may be helpful to look at something else once in a while, and the Fathers are a rich source.2025-04-07 00:13:24 : Now, if you've been doing lectio on Scripture for years, you may want to use some other resources. I have a book of snippets from the Fathers of the Church - I think it's Drinking from the Hidden2025-04-07 00:12:21 parkerladwig : Amen.2025-04-07 00:11:48 alejandro : I think the three of us need a nerd zoom haha to ponder all these things in our hearts haha2025-04-07 00:11:36 : "attend to the itch" rather than be distracted by it2025-04-07 00:11:13 parkerladwig : Coke zero, too!!!2025-04-07 00:10:59 : Either do the analysis first, or just take a note of the word/phrase while doing lectio and follow up later. As Basil Pennington said about contemplation, if you have an itch, just take a moment and "2025-04-07 00:10:56 parkerladwig : Agree, Alejandro, about the love of languages. I CAN'T have psalms/readings in two languages side-by-side. I get so distracted.2025-04-07 00:10:47 alejandro : Hahaha, coke zero all day2025-04-07 00:10:00 alejandro : The phrases, deeper meanings, cultural contexts, etc it's hard to not want to analyze the text as someone who loves doing just that!2025-04-07 00:09:45 : Could happen! Zoom is available even if we can't do it in person... though I'll go for tea or Diet Coke...2025-04-07 00:09:38 : But I also came to the conclusion that hardening my heart could be as simple as insisting on my own way, when things were not arranging themselves as I wish... who arranged the things, after all?2025-04-07 00:08:34 alejandro : I'm melting. That's literally my passion in linguistics, which I've studied on my own but wish I would've just done it in college. Someday we'll need to have coffee and discuss this!2025-04-07 00:08:07 parkerladwig : Yep, perfect example Martha.2025-04-07 00:08:03 : I've always had to gnaw on the statement that God hardened the hearts of the Egyptians so they wouldn't let the people of Israel go...2025-04-07 00:07:38 : Historical Romance linguistics, to be precise - Latin into Spanish, French, Provençal, Catalan, Romanian, etc. But primarily Spanish.2025-04-07 00:06:51 parkerladwig : Harden not your hearts is perfect. Tendency--> does God harden our hearts (theo), rather than Spiritual-->how have I hardened by heart, what is God asking of me2025-04-07 00:06:43 alejandro : Linguistics!2025-04-07 00:05:50 parkerladwig : Smile2025-04-07 00:05:28 : Yep - I studied a lot of linguistics in grad school, and also worked at the Middle English Dictionary (as well as having to get a computer science degree to get a real job), so I'm a terminal nerd too2025-04-07 00:05:26 alejandro : Harden not you hearts!2025-04-07 00:05:19 parkerladwig : Massa2025-04-07 00:05:11 parkerladwig : Meribah and Mass2025-04-07 00:05:04 parkerladwig : And all the Hebrew names that I know mean something.2025-04-07 00:04:53 alejandro : hahaha, did you learn about Og?2025-04-07 00:04:48 : I did look up Bashan recently because it was bugging me...2025-04-07 00:04:16 alejandro : Parker, I can relate to that so hard! I'm a nerdy philosophy, theology, history kinda guy. For example, I read 99% non-fiction so yeah making it spiritual takes time and effort2025-04-07 00:04:04 : Right - separating "Bible study" from "lectio" isn't easy. Sometimes I've done Bible study first so I don't get distracted while doing the lectio wondering what/where/who/why? And WHERE is Bashan ....2025-04-07 00:03:43 parkerladwig : Alejandro, yes, Vigils are ideal for that2025-04-07 00:03:18 alejandro : That's smart, Martha! I usually use the Vigil readings for Lectio2025-04-07 00:02:51 parkerladwig : Alejandro, agree about trans. Like Gelineau, actually. For LD, I have no problem stopping to ponder a text; challenge is to pray it (spiritual rather than phil/theo)2025-04-07 00:02:11 : Or I read it aloud slowly to myself in English and try to listen carefully, tasting the words.2025-04-07 00:01:56 : death for Lectio! It is hard to slow myself down - once again, sometimes I've resorted to reading something in another language, where I can't just glance at a page and get it.2025-04-07 00:00:57 : Lectio is hard for me, because I've always read a lot and quickly, and in High School, there was actually regular training in speed reading. That is great for college, and2025-04-07 00:00:10 alejandro : Ah! I feel that, Parker! It took me some time too. I've been doing it for a long time and I've found that translations, for me, make a difference.2025-04-06 23:59:29 : If it helps, Song of Songs was likely originally a wedding song, but has been given a spiritual meaning.2025-04-06 23:59:15 parkerladwig : Lectio divina I get, and can do (with expository text, not poetry...). Comfortably, probably not well. Actually learned that from Ignatian retreats years ago2025-04-06 23:59:14 parkerladwig : 1. Poetry, 2. OT imagery. Text I get, spiritual poetry (e.g., Song of Songs) has always been foreign to the way I think, pray2025-04-06 23:57:17 : Though now I'm in Conversi, I go to Iowa by preference!2025-04-06 23:56:59 : If we needn't spend much more time on this topic, how about lectio divina? I find it deceptively simple to explain and actually difficult to do properly.2025-04-06 23:55:52 alejandro : How so Parker?2025-04-06 23:55:45 parkerladwig : I have to admit, though, the praying the psalms is tough for me. Slowly getting into my blood, but still an effort2025-04-06 23:55:20 : at least one is in Florida, and is Spanish-language...2025-04-06 23:54:49 : I've been to Holy Spirit several times - I have to fly, but it's been worth it. I think they actually have lay groups that are linked to the monastery, but physically based in other cities. I believe2025-04-06 23:54:34 : glazing over in English, it can help to switch to another language I know for a while, because I don't have the text nearly memorized then...2025-04-06 23:53:21 : As I suspected, we don't need to start from scratch on LoH! Note that in Universalis, you can change the language - even have one column in Latin and one in English or Spanish. I find if my eyes are2025-04-06 23:52:41 alejandro : We're all far from monasteries! I've been wanting to go to Conyers, GA (Holy Spirit). It's the closest OCSO abbey to me. I'm in Orlando2025-04-06 23:52:32 : need to be prudent about not overdoing the road time in a single day).2025-04-06 23:51:20 : I don't either, Alejandro! The closest Cistercian monastery is at least an 8-10 hour drive away. I will be splitting my trip in Chicago, driving only 4 actual road-hours each day (I'm 76 now, and2025-04-06 23:51:04 parkerladwig : Ditto Alejandro. The closest ones for me are Benedictines in Chicago (2 hours) or southern Indiana (4 hours). Love the readings, too, Martha, especially those about saints2025-04-06 23:50:24 : back on the original set!2025-04-06 23:49:54 : would want to use the original set. I've used the secondary for a change, but right now am2025-04-06 23:49:46 : I like having the readings to chew on. Universalis also has a second set of readings that was apparently approved for use, but never printed because of the cost and the assumption that most groups2025-04-06 23:49:25 alejandro : I wish I had a monastery nearby!2025-04-06 23:48:26 : Now I pray Vigils (Office of Readings) and Morning Prayer right after breakfast. I also love the Vigils in the dark of the night at New Melleray.2025-04-06 23:48:22 parkerladwig : I love being able to join our parish group. There's usually 5-8 people, so we can pray it in choir. We only sing the hymn though. Beautiful2025-04-06 23:48:06 alejandro : I like Universalis too2025-04-06 23:47:16 : Years ago, I tended to pray Evening Prayer - but that was when I had my husband and 3 or 4 teens around and we rotated cooking among all of us, so I only was tied up cooking 1 or 2 nights a week!2025-04-06 23:47:11 parkerladwig : Funny Alejandro. Yes, you can get caught up in it. I especially love Matins with NM in the middle of the night when I'm there2025-04-06 23:46:49 alejandro : I sometimes use the Little Office and for long periods I've used Benedictine Daily Prayer, which frankly is my favorite but then I want to do all 7 hours and I have a normal like to live LOL2025-04-06 23:46:07 : I usually use the four-volume set (a Confirmation gift from my sponsor) either in English or Latin - but if I'm not at home, I use Universalis, which is somewhat like iBreviary.2025-04-06 23:45:40 parkerladwig : I meant night prayer (Compline)--New Melleray's version2025-04-06 23:44:28 : (yes, it is disorienting to have continuation text appear ABOVE ... we can't change that alas)2025-04-06 23:44:26 parkerladwig : Wow Alejandro! Yes, you fall in love with LOH. Currently try to incorporate Evening Prayer and then join my parish group every now and then. I use the app iBreviary or the 4-volume Eng version2025-04-06 23:43:57 alejandro : I use Christian Prayer and Liturgia de las Horas para los Fieles (basically the same concept as Christian Prayer but in Spanish)2025-04-06 23:43:50 : you use for the texts?2025-04-06 23:42:35 : So - do either of you currently pray some of the Liturgy of the Hours? (NOTE: Conversi does not - unlike some other lay Cistercian groups - require this... but many of us do!) If so, what resource do2025-04-06 23:42:28 parkerladwig : My parish also has small group, including 3 deacons, who pray Off of Readings + Morning Prayer every MWF before 6:45am Mass. I've attended a few times.2025-04-06 23:42:13 alejandro : And yes on LOTH and Lectio. I went to seminary after high school. So, I’ve been praying the LOTH for almost 20 years2025-04-06 23:41:09 : church near me.2025-04-06 23:40:58 : The priests who serve at the chapel I attend are Lebanese Maronites, but the chapel is just plain Roman rite... I have attended Maronite churches during a visit to Lebanon, though, and a Ukrainian2025-04-06 23:40:49 parkerladwig : I also attended a very traditional seminary for 1 semester and learned to chant the LOH in Latin. Yes, love the Byzantine tradition every now and then!2025-04-06 23:40:39 alejandro : While my former parish was going through renovations I attended a Byzantine parish for like a year. it was a great experience!2025-04-06 23:40:01 parkerladwig : Congrats on your conversion. Yes, heard of LOH and LD2025-04-06 23:39:42 : least not by those names) in most Protestant churches. Would this in fact be true?2025-04-06 23:39:16 parkerladwig : I indicated Roman Catholic because I have also dabble in the Eastern Catholic churches (Ukrainian rite, Byzantine, Maronite, Syriac, etc.)2025-04-06 23:38:50 : Having only Catholics in this chat makes life a bit easier.... just because I can probably assume that you at least have heard of the Liturgy of the Hours and Lectio Divina, which are not known (at2025-04-06 23:38:42 alejandro : oh wow!2025-04-06 23:38:10 : I started life as a Methodist myself, and spent about 25 or 30 years as a Lutheran, before becoming Catholic at Pentecost, which happened to be my 50th birthday.2025-04-06 23:37:37 alejandro : Amen! and amén 🙏🏼2025-04-06 23:36:56 : OK... I might have some technical vocabulary issues myself, even though I've taught Spanish, and taught courses given in Spanish..2025-04-06 23:36:48 parkerladwig : Amen2025-04-06 23:36:25 : But first! Lord, please be with us in this discussion today. Enlighten our hearts, help us to learn from one another, and to fall more deeply in love with you!.2025-04-06 23:36:13 parkerladwig : Ingles por favor. Espanol es un poco dificil para mi2025-04-06 23:36:05 alejandro : I’m Catholic!2025-04-06 23:35:24 parkerladwig : Roman Catholic (Church of Christ protestant in my youth)2025-04-06 23:35:21 : Bueno, hacemos esta discusion en español o inglés?2025-04-06 23:35:15 alejandro : ¡Hola Parker!2025-04-06 23:35:02 parkerladwig : !Hola Alejandro!2025-04-06 23:34:37 : As other people may not have read the bios of new members, may I ask each of you first (not for grading, but for background) what denomination are you?2025-04-06 23:34:20 alejandro : Good evening! For whatever reason I couldn’t get in through my desktop so using my mobile.2025-04-06 23:33:47 parkerladwig : Ok. "Lord, open my lips... And my mouth will proclaim your praise" (smile)2025-04-06 23:32:47 : Hi, Parker! Welcome! Nice to know I'm not alone! Let's wait a bit and see who else logs in...2025-04-06 23:31:29 parkerladwig : I'm here. Hello everyone!2025-04-06 23:30:36 : (Frieda logged in on Saturday - no one has been stranded today)2025-04-06 23:24:35 : Welcome to the newcomer chat on Lectio and Liturgy of the Hours! It will begin in about 8 minutes2025-04-06 23:22:21
friedachyn : I guess not--it is 6:41 and no one else has come so bye.2025-04-05 23:42:19 friedachyn : Are we having chat on lectio and LOH tonight?2025-04-05 23:36:13
Conversi : Welcome to the Chat2025-02-25 02:53:39- No active chat users